Editing Talk:Undead vs Unliving

==Elixir of Life==
Did the HD mod update to change how the elixir of life affected crystal dragons? Pretty sure I tested this when I originally wrote this page... [[user:imahero|→ima]] 00:07, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
:the same without HD --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 01:09, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
::Guess I made a mistake when testing it back then. Not sure how I messed that up. [[user:imahero|→ima]] 10:02, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

==Crystal Dragons==
I am too busy to correct the whole text, so I'll lay this down; here's some text from Clash of Dragons:
<pre>Well, they aren't true Dragons, although the powerful process Wizards use to create them involves crushed Dragon bones.  Hence, Mutare is still able to control them.  They are strong beasts with a one-track mind.  Thankfully, they neither have wings nor a breath weapon....</pre>
Presumably, they still have some soul or living essence in them at the very least, and that's what makes them alive. The precedence of inorganic living creatures exists too, Angels and perhaps even Titans (if delving deep into the MM lore, you'd realize it's not uncommon to have souls inhabit artificial bodies).--[[User:FirePaladin2|FirePaladin2]] ([[User talk:FirePaladin2|talk]]) 16:02, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
:Should we create another category for them? It would probably be good to show them in some place here and to note their differences. [[user:imahero|→ima]] 00:07, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
::not sure if that will have any sense. technically it's just another living unit and all its golemness is just in lore. should it have been realized properly at AB release? - yes. should we try to fix it now somehow? - no. is it a piece of work for hota crew? - maybe. this fix wont ruin the balance anyway cause neutral dragons were broken since the very beginning. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 01:09, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
:::I have updated the article accordingly. [[user:imahero|→ima]] 09:57, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
::::I am just saying, they were 99% intended to be like this (just as Angels, Titans, etc.). It's golemness is reflected in the immunity to Vial of Life. There's no need for "correcting" the creature either. MM just simply has the concept of souls living inside any kind of body, with Corak and Angels being the most obvious ones (presumably, even Tarnum has an artificial body, but this is not the place for it).--[[User:FirePaladin2|FirePaladin2]] ([[User talk:FirePaladin2|talk]]) 11:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Elixir of Life has full effect on crystal dragons==
+==Elixir of Life==
 Did the HD mod update to change how the elixir of life affected crystal dragons? Pretty sure I tested this when I originally wrote this page... [[user:imahero|→ima]] 00:07, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 :the same without HD --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 01:09, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 ::not sure if that will have any sense. technically it's just another living unit and all its golemness is just in lore. should it have been realized properly at AB release? - yes. should we try to fix it now somehow? - no. is it a piece of work for hota crew? - maybe. this fix wont ruin the balance anyway cause neutral dragons were broken since the very beginning. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 01:09, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 :::I have updated the article accordingly. [[user:imahero|→ima]] 09:57, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
-::::I am just saying, they were 99% intended to be like this (just as Angels, Titans, etc.). It's golemness is reflected in the immunity to Vial of Life. There's no need for "correcting" the creature either. MM just simply has the concept of souls living inside any kind of body, with Corak and Angels being the most obvious ones (presumably, even Tarnum has an artificial body, but this is not the place for it). In fact, someone should rather add Mind Immunity to Angels (incompatible brain with the spell itself, or self-defense), as originally intended, instead of "correcting" a creature which is working properly, like the Crystal Dragons. :P--[[User:FirePaladin2|FirePaladin2]] ([[User talk:FirePaladin2|talk]]) 11:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
+::::I am just saying, they were 99% intended to be like this (just as Angels, Titans, etc.). It's golemness is reflected in the immunity to Vial of Life. There's no need for "correcting" the creature either. MM just simply has the concept of souls living inside any kind of body, with Corak and Angels being the most obvious ones (presumably, even Tarnum has an artificial body, but this is not the place for it).--[[User:FirePaladin2|FirePaladin2]] ([[User talk:FirePaladin2|talk]]) 11:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
-:::::I thought we decided crystal dragons were not immune to the elixir of life? Or is there another artifact you were referring to? I thought we decided that the golemnity of the crystal dragons was reflected in the game text only and that as far as game mechanics are concerned they are living creatures. [[user:imahero|→ima]] 11:33, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
-::::::I only explained why Crystal Dragons are pretty much alive lore-wise and why their design is not a mistake, although I apologize for not mentioning their immunity to the Elixir of Life. Sorry, I didn't take much part in fixing the article itself either, nor taken a look over it.--[[User:FirePaladin2|FirePaladin2]] ([[User talk:FirePaladin2|talk]]) 11:36, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::[[user:GroundhogYear|Shushie]] [https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php?title=Undead_vs_Unliving&type=revision&diff=52384&oldid=52381 tested the elixir of life] and it seems we've been wrong about it. It actually does affect crystal dragons. [[user:imahero|→ima]] 11:42, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
-::::::::Well, that's nice to know, I was thinking of checking that as well, but didn't bother yet. Thanks for looking into it!--[[User:FirePaladin2|FirePaladin2]] ([[User talk:FirePaladin2|talk]]) 12:09, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::::not sure if MM has a proper concept of a soul at all. if were not considering soul suckers too seriously, the only MM soul-issue i can remember is lichification and soul jars.
-:::::::::corak, escaton and maybe angels - its all about the ancient technologies. (though id like to see an ingame proof or at least hint about cyborg-angel stuff. im not shocked by the idea itself, but ure not building the game lore by interviews, thats not how it works).
-:::::::::there are crystal dragons in mm8 (emerald/sapphire/ruby). and they are placed inside Escaton's crystal along with other crystal guys, which means (most probably) its Ancient technology (the crystal itself is a world-destroying tool). but mages make golems, necromancers make undead - thats the whole bracada-deyja drama in short. and if they mastered a piece of technology/magic of the ancients in bracada - its a forge-level breakthrough, something worth mentioning. but no, all we have is "brought to life through magical means" and dummies for young dragon hunters. thats why i think crystal dragons as we see them now are not golems enough. --[[User:GroundhogYear|GroundhogYear]] ([[User talk:GroundhogYear|talk]]) 17:00, 29 April 2021 (UTC)